Just my political 2 cents

October 30, 2008

Random thoughts and observations of yours truly:

I’m not a fan of McCain.
I’m not a fan of Obama.
One thing that cracks me up are the headlines which go something like this: “Obama/McCain calls for [enter some demand of some country's leader here].” As if Obama or McCain have any authority as a presidential candidate to demand anything from anybody.
I’m a mom. I’m all about making things simple. I have an idea for the next election. First, the election process will last 3 months. Each person who wants to be president gets one blog and one profile on Facebook. The blog is where they tell us how they would change America; Facebook is where we vote. The winner with the most friends on Facebook at the end becomes president and gets two years to do what they promised on their blog. Facebook is consulted again after 2 years. If the current president still has the most friends, he/she stays. If one of the other candidates has more friends, the current president loses the privilege and the new one gets a shot at it. This promotes honesty, integrity and gives everyone an opportunity. Also, juvenile behavior such as name-calling, excessive and intrusive phone-calling, etc., will result in getting kicked out of the race. Because if you’re going to act like a child, you’ll be treated like a child. And children don’t get to be president. And oh, one more thing. Maybe all the millions of dollars the candidates would have spent on commercials and private jets and other ridiculous necessary things could be put toward the national debt. Or food and shelter for the homeless. Or affordable health care. Or the failing economy. Or something. But what do I know.
I find it amusing when Obama fans make such a big deal out of Palin’s lack of foreign policy experience when Obama doesn’t exactly ooze foreign policy experience himself.
I think McCain is too old to run for president.
I think the hysteria surrounding Obama is creepy.
I genuinely respect the people who are voting for Obama not only because they “like what they see” (there’s much to like) but because they also agree with what he stands for. To me, this is voting with integrity.
What makes me want to scratch my eyeballs out though, are the people who are voting for Obama simply because they like what they see and/or because they are reacting to Bush (“I’m so sick of Bush, I just want someone, ANYONE, different!”) EVEN IF they don’t agree with (or haven’t seriously thought about) what Obama stands for on key issues. To me, this is voting without integrity.
Speaking of key issues…I honestly don’t get the “I’m pro-choice but not pro-abortion” viewpoint. “Pro-choice” because they believe a woman should determine what happens to her own body, but not “pro-abortion” because…why? Presumably it’s because they think that at least on some occasions, abortion involves the killing of a human being. Right? I mean, there would be no need to specify “I’m not pro-abortion” if there wasn’t a moral question there. For those who choose this view because the moral component does not allow you to be pro-abortion while being pro-choice, consider this:

“What would you think if a politician said “I’m not pro-rape, I’m simply prochoice about rape. And though I would not choose to rape a woman, I believe that every man should be free to rape a woman if that is his personal choice.” And what would you do if that politician promised the rape lobby that if he is elected president, the “first thing I would do” is to sign legislation that would invalidate all the state laws that restrict rape in any way? (Randy Alcorn)

I’m voting for McCain. Below is an outline of my decision-making process, which is basically a summary of this post by Randy Alcorn who said it a lot better than I could ever dream of saying it myself.

Does human life begin at conception?
If so, I must say then that abortion takes a human life.
Is all human life equal?
If so, I must say then that taking the life of a human in the womb is no different than taking the life of a human outside the womb.
Therefore, taking the life of a pre-born baby is just like taking the life of an innocent 3-year-old or an innocent 70-year-old or any other innocent human being.
Over 3000 abortions are performed in the US every day. What if over 3000 3-year-olds were killed every day in the US? Or over 3000 70-year-olds? Or over 3000 anyones? Wouldn’t that one issue trump all other issues in an election?
If so, can I in good conscience vote for someone (even if I like many other things about him) who would fight to keep the killing legal?
For me, the answer is no.

So there you have it. And at no charge! Why I’m choosing to enter the political fray, I have no idea. As you know, I often wonder why I do the things I do.

Alright internet friends, let the fiery darts fly.

Comments

21 Responses to “Just my political 2 cents”

Amy Bogatto
October 31st, 2008 @ 12:00 am

I couldn’t agree with this more. It scares me how many uneducated voters are headed to the polls. I bartend at a tennis club a couple of nights a week and they are an early voting site for the county, so I get spill over into my bar with people who have just voted and EVERYONE has an opinion and no one expects the pretty 20-something bartender to 1) be educated or 2) be conservative. I literally had a conversation one night with a group of ladies one night about tattoos and piercings and one of the ladies said to me, “oh, you liberal kids.” And I politely said, “careful! I’m not as liberal as you may think.” She looked at me and nastily goes, “I bet you’re voting for Obama” and I responded calmly with, “I bet you’re wrong.” I was stereotyped because I’m young and I have tattoos and piercings! Seriously? I have gone toe-to-toe with Obama supporters who think they can out-argue me. I have agreed with things that they have said regarding McCain and I have referenced documents and instances that have disproven their statements regarding this that and the other big issue. I don’t know if I believe that anyone – no matter what political affiliation – will ever be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. I pray that they can – but with that judgment, an extreme amount of funding needs to be pumped into sex education and abortion alternatives (i.e. adoption.) Monumental things are going to happen no matter who makes it to the White House and I’m petrified to see the changes that either candidate will make… we all need to hit our knees harder than ever before and remember: “Your kingdom come, YOUR will be done…”
Caitlin
October 31st, 2008 @ 7:53 am

I also agree! I do like Palin a lot though. She helps me stomach voting for McCain.

AMY: I mostly like her too.
Naada
October 31st, 2008 @ 8:25 am

I disagree! You have lost a loyal withpurpose reader. Have a blessed day.

AMY: Sorry to see you go…and perhaps you’re long gone already, but just in case you stop by to peek one last time…

If you’ve been a loyal reader, I can’t imagine my political stance would come as a surprise to you. If you are surprised, I am so, so curious to know what you thought my opinion was.
anon
October 31st, 2008 @ 2:43 pm

http://jcthomasjr.com/blog/

For a different point of view on the Pro-Choice vs Pro-Abortion issue, please read this blog in its entirety. It starts off with him answering a comment.
Thanks

AMY: Here’s the main thrust of his argument:

I am Pro-choice, not because I support killing unborn babies, but I support a woman’s right to choose what she will do, even if I disagree with her choice, even if I believe her choice is morally wrong and against the will of God. The question for me is do we as Christians have a right to legislate our Christianity on others, and force them to accept our views, even if we believe the choices they make are directly contrary to the will of God?

First, this isn’t an issue of “legislat[ing] our Christianity on others” because there are plenty of non-Christians who are against abortion. Second, it’s not about “forc[ing] them to accept our view” because I’m not saying people must adopt my view, I’m saying those of us who believe innocent human beings are being killed need to do what we can to stop it. Third, if we shouldn’t interfere with a woman’s right to choose whether or not to kill her unborn baby, why should we interfere with a woman’s right to choose whether or not to kill her born baby? In the case of partial-birth abortion after the point of viability, the ONLY difference between what is legal (abortion) and what is illegal (murder) is about 6 inches (the length of a baby’s head). (Here’s a diagram.) God have mercy on us.
Chuggie
November 1st, 2008 @ 6:18 pm

Excellently put! I was born in 1974 just after the Roe v. Wade in 1973. My mother had x-rays before finding out she was pregnant. The doctors STRONGLY advised her to abort…because now they could. She CHOSE not to. Here I am today 34, healthy, a mother, and very much in love with life and taking part in God’s creation and His purposes. There are a lot of issues to consider in this election, but I do agree that human life, in every stage, is priority. After all, without it…who votes?

AMY:
anon
November 1st, 2008 @ 11:31 pm

Not that I agree with his point of view or yours. My only point in all of this is that you can not legislate morals. God has the power to “make us” do what is right, He does not. He gives us choice. You simply can not make people to what is right, no matter who the new president is. Those desire to do wrong (have an abortion, kill a three year old child or steal food from the store)
are going to do wrong.

AMY: You’re absolutely right; we can’t make anyone do anything. So do we just resign ourselves to that fact and sit with our hands folded, doing nothing? NO! And why have any laws about anything if we can’t make anyone follow them? One of the main reasons we have laws is to protect the innocent. And there are some innocent people in the world who can’t fight for protection on their own. What I’m saying is that we (Christians) should step up in this way because it’s right.

Putting abortion aside for a moment, let’s look at The Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20), one of our (Christians) most basic responsibilities on this earth. Can we make anyone accept Christ as Lord and Savior and follow Him all the days of their life? Absolutely not. God knows that of course, so then why did He command us to try?
Brian Andrews
November 2nd, 2008 @ 8:09 am

We can’t legislate morality.

It sounds right, and there is some truth in it. I can agree that we can’t legislate personal morality, but when a person’s actions negatively affect someone else, it’s no longer simply a matter of personal choice.

Consider how we have already legislated morality. We have laws against rape, murder (of the already-born), theft, lying (at least in court), polygamy, slavery, etc.

There were those who disagreed with slavery in the early years of this country. But many did not want to “force their morality on everybody else.” As an African-American, I’m glad there were those brave enough to stand on the side of those who did not have the power to change the laws.

Well, I’m choosing to return the favor. I’m choosing to stand on the side of those precious unborn ones who have absolutely no power to protect themselves.

Brian Andrews’s last blog post..Climbing higher
anon
November 2nd, 2008 @ 10:36 am

Do you think that voting for McCain will stop abortion? If it will then I would vote for him as well. You know and I know that it will not. All I am saying( and I did not mean for this discussion to go this far) is that there will be women who will still CHOOSE to abort. That is a PERSONAL choice. Who does it affect? It affects her relationship with God. God will judge and God will ultimately punish. Did McCain not go to war and kill innocent men, women and children? Electing McCain, Obama or anyone will not change the fact that some women will abort unborn children.What will happen is women will resort to archiac practices.
I went to breakfast with my husband and I heard a political discussion and it reminded me of why I normally stay out of them. There was a man (white) sitting a booth or two from me and he was going on and on about Obama, calling him a boy and a few other unkind names and talking about what a mistake it would be to make him president. An older (black) man sat across from me. He smiled and rubbed his bald head and commented that “they” did have anything else to talk about, after hearing all that the man was sying about Obama it began to anger the man. (The man that was talking about Obama was loud enough for everyone to hear him on that side of the restaurant) The older man took it personally and move to booth farther from the talker. He then accused the waitress of being prejudice for seating him there in the first place,then he started to call the talker ugly names. I fear that this is really going to get out of hand. For a side note I am black, I have 5 grand children. My son is married to a beautiful white lady.
I will not post again, by the way I disagree with Naada.I will continue to read your blog.
Chuggie
November 2nd, 2008 @ 11:07 am

All I can say, at this point, is that our prayers matter as much as, if not more than, our vote. I don’t have to see eye to eye with someone one every issue to respect them. It does seem to me that we arrive at a destination through a series of steps. Voting for McCain/Palin may not stop abortion, but it is the logical step in the right direction. I am saddened to my core at the division in beloved country. Brian, I enjoyed your comment very much. My prayers continue…fervently.
Tammy
November 3rd, 2008 @ 10:43 am

I had to write about this a few weeks ago myself. It is a tragedy that killing innocent children is just an “issue” with us. Life is the heart beat of God. I know he cares about our financial comings and goings, but economics is not on his priority list and I am pretty confident in that as He has His own economy system which has sustained our family personally during this failing economy in America. He cares about people, about babies…Mark 9:36 says “He took a little child and had him stand among them. Taking him in his arms, he said to them, ‘Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.’” Killing them before they are born is not welcoming them. “Defend the defensless” is a mandate in Scripture. I believe Christians have a responsiblity to do what they can even if it feels hopeless. You never know what God can do with what little you have to offer. Right now, my vote is all I have to offer, but God can do something with that.Obama will take us without apology down the wrong path as far as morality is concerned. A vote for Obama is a vote for abortion. He was quoted saying at a Planned Parenthood conference that the FIRST thing he would do as president is sign the “Freedom of Choice Act.” WOW, the first thing he will do is ensure babies die on a larger scale. The economy is not his priority, the war is not his priority, but rather making sure more innocent lives are taken. There are many other issues that make me give my vote to McCain, I am not excited about America becoming a socialist nation etc…,but abortion is my key issue here and as long as I live and breath and accept the mandate God has given me to defend the defensless, I will vote pro life everytime~
Richard
November 3rd, 2008 @ 11:00 am

Two excellent books my wife has read recently (on my “to read” list) which, in light of this discussion, some of you might find interesting are:

Giving Sorrow Words: Women’s Stories of Grief after Abortion
by Melinda Tankard Reist

Defiant Birth: Women who resisted medical eugenics
by Melinda Tankard Reist

Both available here in Australia – can pass website details on if anyone is interested.
Indira
November 3rd, 2008 @ 11:39 am

I am voting for McCain also. I don’t like everything about him but the most important issues to me I agree on with him. As far as Obama. I think he is an extremely well-spoken, educated and charismatic man but charisma is not what we need in a president.

Indira’s last blog post..I’m a Pastor’s Wife!!!
dawn
November 5th, 2008 @ 6:30 pm

Roe vs. Wade still stands because the majority of people have made it known that this is a decision best left to the individual. I do not beleive it is a moral issue but yet an individual decision and a fundamental right. I do not compare it to rape, killing a 3 year old or an elderly person or even slavery. Keep it clear..this is just about abortion…nothing else. These are all seperate issues to me and others. I can not compare them in the same conversation. The decision of abortion should not affect you but only the parties involved. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. If you do not believe in abortion…let it be known…educate persons in your view that want and will listen…stand at the clinics with signs..put out a commercial.
I do not feel you are protecting the innocent. I come from a belief that conception does not constitute “life”. I do not believe there is a miracle from God happening here. I will not be judged for my decisions. I am not saying that partial birth abortions aren’t pretty extreme…If a mother is going to loose her life…in my view…what other alternitive is there (or even if it is done not for that reason…it is really none of my business). Otherwise an abortion preformed within the first three months (which is the norm) is perfically acceptable to me for many reasons. I want that right for myself or for anyone else whom finds this an option for themselves.
I hope people are not faced with having to make a decision like having an abortion or not. How hard it is to have to go through or not…depending on the individual. But I am overjoyed that they can make that decision freely. It is their body. Not having this option is to me like telling someone they can not have certain surgeries or sex changes etc. What I want is to keep church and it’s views out of my government and decisions for myself!!! I am not bitter…I am a fun loving human who loves people, life and my family. I respect peoples beleifs. I love that people are different. I will always vote pro-choice. I understand Christians and other faiths “feel the need” to speak out. But leave it at that. There are many of us out there who want to make our own decisions regarding ourselves or our personal lives. I also love that there are forums out there like this that we can freely express our differences. I love my country. Guess what my views on gay marriage are? euthanasia?

Amy: I would like to address this first because I’m hoping we can then get it out of the way…

What I want is to keep church and it’s views out of my government and decisions for myself!!!

Actually, I didn’t mention the church or its beliefs one time in my argument regarding abortion because this isn’t my goal. My goal is that people look at their conclusions about abortion according to logic and basic decency, not religion.

I come from a belief that conception does not constitute “life”.

While I disagree with you on this point, I respect your opinion. There’s no need to debate because we just simply disagree; and we can go in peace. I won’t judge you and you won’t judge me. Simple. And I have no problem with that whatsoever. My undies don’t get in a bunch when I encounter people like you who, as I see it, live according to what they believe (i.e. live with integrity). It’s mostly other Christians I get mad at.

But do you believe life begins at some point in the womb? Because if so, we can debate from that point on. So for example, if you believe life begins when a baby can survive outside the womb (the earliest was 21 weeks), we could talk about that. This is where partial birth abortion kicks in because 1.1% of abortions occur at 21 weeks and beyond (Guttmacher). This means that over 13,000 partial birth abortions occur every year in America, or more than 36 every day (again, Guttmacher). And we both know all those 36 are NOT because the mother’s life is in danger. (Abortion to save the life of the mother happens so rarely and is such a different bird altogether that I believe it should be handled independently of the general abortion debate. I don’t think it should be used as a reason why abortion in general should be legal.)

I am not saying that partial birth abortions aren’t pretty extreme…If a mother is going to loose her life…in my view…what other alternitive is there (or even if it is done not for that reason…it is really none of my business).

“…it is really none of my business” Really? But if that baby would be pulled out just 6 more inches and could survive (instead of only the head left in the birth canal, scissors jammed in its neck and its brains sucked out), shouldn’t we AT THE VERY LEAST say it’s wrong (and better yet, stand up for that person’s right to live) instead of turning our backs because it’s “none of our business”? Because if we believe a mother should have the right to treat her child this way, why are we all outraged when we hear about horrible cases of child abuse? I mean, it’s none of our business if a parent chooses to deal with their child that way, right?

But I am overjoyed that they can make that decision freely. It is their body.

The “right to her own body” argument doesn’t work for me either because that baby is NOT HER OWN BODY! That baby has their own complete set of DNA (which was formed at the moment of conception) and even has a 50% chance of being an entirely different sex! True, the baby is dependent on her for survival temporarily, but so is a 3-week-old; that’s why I make the comparison.

Anyway, I’ll stop there for now. In closing…

I hope people are not faced with having to make a decision like having an abortion or not.

I agree.

I am not bitter…I am a fun loving human who loves people, life and my family. I respect peoples beleifs.

I have absolutely seen this in you.

I love that people are different.

Me too.

I also love that there are forums out there like this that we can freely express our differences.

I agree. Thank you for commenting on mine.

I love my country.

Hear hear.
Brian Andrews
November 5th, 2008 @ 10:53 pm

Dawn,

If it’s “just surgery,” then why not have partial birth abortions? Why not have abortions up until the ninth month? Why are abortions acceptable to you only up until the third month? If it’s just the same as having your tonsils or appendix removed, what difference does it make when the abortion is performed?
dawn
November 6th, 2008 @ 10:42 am

Why are abortions acceptable to you only up until the third month?

That is not what I said….

As I wrote before….

I am not saying that partial birth abortions aren’t pretty extreme…If a mother is going to loose her life…in my view…what other alternitive is there (or even if it is done not for that reason…it is really none of my business). Otherwise an abortion preformed within the first three months (which is the norm) is perfically acceptable to me for many reasons. I want that right for myself or for anyone else whom finds this an option (or a need)for themselves. (within the first 3 months or not). I do hope people wont choose to have late term abortions, especially at 9 months, “just because”. But again…to me…it really is their choice…
Just another point of view….
dawn
November 6th, 2008 @ 1:04 pm

One more thought….sorry it is broken up but it seems I can only find time to type inbetween getting kids to and from school…
I felt compelled to chime in because Amy asked for the “firery darts to fly” and the whole thread was leaning one way…well except for the angry one who is lost forever (Naada)…
Abortion seemed to be the hot topic and I do have strong views on that matter…we could go back and forth forever on the details…my issue really is seperating religious views (as much as possible, I understand it is a large population of people)from our laws and decision making for the individual. I want to be able to approuch my decision making by my set of values (which is another large population of people). I choose to believe that the majority of humans would make similar decisions…religious or not…on most matters. Issues such as gay marriage, abortion and euthanasia are individual decisions to me…. If you don’t agree with the morality of them let it be known…speak out…put up signs…make rules for church memebers…but I disagree with telling other people what to do…based on scripture or any God. I hope I am making clear statements but I am rushing and must run to the dentist. Please excuse any spelling errors…did not have time to check!
SHINE
dawn
November 6th, 2008 @ 7:34 pm

Oh Amy, I did not see your comments…just Brians…so again I want to post…
Sorry I made it seem that your post mentioned Christianity and abortion together. I did get that feel….from the thread an excert that was posted and from other’s posts…and I was kinda just responding in general to them all.

So some answers to your questions…

But do you believe life begins at some point in the womb?
This is hard for me answer with a yes or no. I have very liberal views here. I am not the one to decide this for anyone. If faced with the question to abort myself (ie. 20 weeks on, and Yes…I do feel there are reasons to do this)…I would dig deep into my heart and make my own decision. It would be hard enough to have to decide….I wouldn’t want anyone eles influence. I want the ability to make up my own mind on this subject. Who has the grand authority to say to everyone when life begins…I do not think anyone. 1.1% does not change my mind to give up a person’s right to choose on this matter.

And we both know all those 36 are NOT because the mother’s life is in danger.

More than you think may be because of the mother or not (I would have to find some unbiassed statistics). I still would not change my mind. Because having the right to save yourself right now needs to be there. For the others….they will have to deal with the concequences of their decision making themselves.

shouldn’t we AT THE VERY LEAST say it’s wrong (and better yet, stand up for that person’s right to live) instead of turning our backs because it’s “none of our business”?

I do not think it is a right and wrong issue. I did say it was none of my business…and I feel right in that. As I would want my decision to be none of anyone eles’s business. I feel no need to speak out about abortion myself(unless my right was taken away…and it better be for a good reason). As I mentioned before….if people want to stand up for the 1.1% (which are not all because of poor choices)do it. Speak out, preach in your churches…make laws within your congregations…yell out at clinics…make a PBS special…I am all for free speach and putting it out …But not everyone thinks pro-life. There is a huge population of people who think similar if not exactly as I do…and even way more intence…So I am confident that woman will always have the right to choose. Will everyone agree…no. I guess this holds true with most things. It feels so good to post…kinda grounding for me…especially after my fight for California’s no on prop 8.

I seem to be in mommy world so much I’ve been missing me and my inner thoughts!

Amy: I genuinely appreciate the dialogue. I agree, conversation about things other than eating habits, sleeping habits and pooping habits is always a nice change! It makes me feel human.

It appears we will have to agree to disagree (as I know we both knew when we started ) on the issue of abortion. You’ve also referred to gay marriage and euthanasia which we would disagree on as well (I assume). Given Brian’s position and our involvement in Christian circles, it’s not every day I get to engage someone who comes from such a different standpoint. (That’s not something I’m entirely proud of by the way. I think a lack of exposure to what others believe can be detrimental.) I’m sincerely trying to get a handle on your overarching theme (that sounds cheesy…not sure what else to call it though at 5:23 am).

I think what I hear you saying is that you highly value the ability to make decisions based on what you believe is good for you and not what someone else believes is good or an absolute truth. Is my perception correct? If so, I am genuinely interested in how that gets played out in a situation like child abuse (as I mentioned before). Maybe my assumption that you would be “outraged” wasn’t entirely accurate. I’m not trying to be inflammatory here, nor am I trying to “trap” you into sounding like you are an heartless human being; I hope it doesn’t come across that way. Besides, because I know you in real life, I know that you are far from heartless. (The biggest evidence of that for me recently was the very loving spirits of S & M that we saw last time we were visiting.)

Anyway, so in the case of grievous child abuse (as an example), is that something you find yourself outraged by, or saddened by or neutral towards because it’s not your business, or not a right and wrong issue?? I’m really trying to understand how you see things…
dawn
November 7th, 2008 @ 6:50 pm

Amy…I have always thought you to be a great person…Funny…loving and real. I am so glad we can communicate…with love and understanding.

Anyway, so in the case of grievous child abuse (as an example), is that something you find yourself outraged by, or saddened by or neutral towards because it’s not your business, or not a right and wrong issue?? I’m really trying to understand how you see things…

I see things individually. Terminating a pregnancy and child abuse have nothing to do with eachother. Nor do gay marriage and euthenasia. There is not one big unbrella these fit under for me.
I am not sure if I am going to put this correctly…I have never really thought about it specifically (it just comes naturally as would a Christian’s views). Since I do not have a book to follow and to weigh things against or to help sway me in my decision making…for example “what does the bible say”…I look at the right of the individual (already born)…is it descrimination…is it bigotry…supression…etc….
I do feel there are basic morals for all people (which expand around the world)… and in our country most have laws attached to them…or social services assigned to evaluate the need for interference or not.

I would report abuse (man, woman, child, old) if it struck me as inappropriate. I am thankful that there are people who dedicate their working careers to fight abuse. To evalute the intencity of the acts…and give out concequences as necessary. Being in the Child Development field…I have several times reported abuse…heard it from a child’s mouth…and cried.

Just for more perspective…(even though we disagree)

Gay Marriage. Is an easy one for me. We have seen races and groups of people fight for their freedom or to be equal…Why? Why isn’t it just so. That person is no different than that person. This union is no different than that union. S and M just attended her first wedding/cival union of two of our dear friends-I’ll name them John and Frank. It was a beautiful ceramony and joining of two people in love…as mine was…and that persons…and them over there. There is no reason why two people of any group should be denied the right to legally wed.

Euthanasia. Another easy one. If I want to go…I should be able to. Know one else should have any say on my fate. I should be able to go the way I want. Euthenasia gives me a less intense option than other typical suicidal techniques. If I had a friend or loved one who wanted to go (especially if they were terminally ill) I would never expect them to suffer the last of their days. I will be so angry if someone says…regarding me…”i hope she goes quickly”…(just get it over with, darn it!)
Again…I can say these things because I come from a beleif that I have no entity judging me from beyond…I will not be banished to a firery doom…there is nothing biblical….when you die…you die. There is no mystery here for me…I do not live in fear…no faith needed. And it feels good to be free!
I will enjoy each and every day I have spinning on this giant ball in space…and when my time comes…i will say “good-bye”.

One more thing to give you an idea of who I am-
If my child were to choose a faith whether it was Christian, Muslim, Budhist, Morman, Wiccan…or nothing…I will love them and respect their choice and beleifs…and keep mine as mine. I can’t wait to see what makes their life joyful…what their passions become….and I naturally will expect them to have free choice and equall opportunities in this country throughout their whole experience on earth.
SPARKLE

Amy: It’s helpful to hear a bit more of your perspective as it helps me better understand where you’re coming from. I’m doing my best to put myself in your shoes for a moment and see things through your eyes. There is simplicity in your process (I’m generally a fan of simplicity), like for example, your view on death (i.e. when you die, you die, that’s it, end of story). On the other hand, when I think of the huge issues facing society today, I find it hard to believe our existence and purpose on earth is really all that simple.

Here’s a little more from my perspective. And I will also address gay marriage and euthanasia; bear with me as I work my way there.

The Bible informs my beliefs and opinions and here’s why. I believe Jesus was a man that actually lived (as has been documented in various historical texts, of which the Bible is one) and that what He taught was true. The reason why I believe the teachings of Jesus are true (as opposed to any other teaching like Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) is because Jesus did something no one else did: He told people He would die and He told them He would rise from the dead 3 days later…and then it happened exactly as He said it would. And how do I know this happened? Because there were eye witnesses who said it really happened.

Here’s the thing. Our tendency is to think, “Hey, as long as I’m not hurting anyone, well then, I should be able to do what is right for me.” Well, that’s where I think it’s too simplistic. The fact is, everyone and everything on this planet is interconnected. What someone does on this side of the globe, can very significantly impact other people on the other side of the globe. (Just take the environment for example.) OK, so if everything on the earth is interconnected, we all need to be very, very careful to do things in a way that promotes not just good for us, but the most good overall. Well, how can one person or even one nation know what to do to ensure the most good? We can’t! That’s why I believe we all need to look to a Being outside of ourselves who can see “the big picture.” Jesus said He/God is good, so my vote is for God! (By the way, I don’t see God as judge as much as I see Him as the ultimate promoter of pure, long-lasting good. He’s not someone who thrives on jerking us around, but He’s like a parent who loves their child, wants them to sparkle & shine, delights in them and gives them free choice…but always hopes they will choose Him because He truly knows what’s best.)

I disagree when you say “no faith needed” as it applies to you. I believe everyone has faith whether it’s in God or someone/something else. In your case, it takes faith to believe that when you die, you will just die and nothing else will happen because the bottom line is, you really don’t know that for sure. It takes faith for me to believe that after I die, I will hang out with God forever in heaven.

So by faith, I trust in God. Because He sees the “big picture” and understands things I could never understand, sometimes what looks good to me right here, right now, may not be the thing which will promote the most good. We see this concept displayed in the little things of life all the time. Imagine for a moment M is riding his bike on the sidewalk along Pacific Coast Highway. He’s enjoying the ride, however he’s a bit frustrated navigating the narrow sidewalk and dodging pedestrians. Suddenly there’s a lull in traffic and he realizes that if he could just ride on the street, he could have so much more fun! He looks at the street and he thinks, “Freedom!” whereas you, his mother, look at the street and know, “Danger!” You tell him he may not ride on the street, because you are promoting his good…and he thinks you’re impinging on his freedom.

So gay marriage and euthanasia. Does it look like a good idea for two people who love each other to be able to solidify their commitment through marriage? Sure. Does it look like a good idea to let someone who prefers to die because they are in chronic pain end their own lives? Sure. On the surface both look like good ideas. Just like on the surface, M thinks it’s a good idea to be able to have to the “freedom” of riding his bike on the street. But what he sees as freedom is really not freedom at all because it’s just a matter of time before the traffic whizzes through again.

So it is with gay marriage. It may look like a good thing. But God has said that even though it looks good on the surface, its goodness and beauty is really only on the surface. Underneath is great danger and ultimately death. What’s the danger? Well, I don’t claim to know all the intricacies (it’s only God who sees the complete big picture), however I believe one thing gay marriage does is that it leads to the breakdown of the family. Families are the foundational unit that keeps society healthy and alive. If you break families down, all of society becomes weak…and eventually dies. (Sure, gay couples can adopt and this might appear to be working well for a while, but it would only be a matter of time before we realize that a makeshift solution cannot sustain a healthy foundation.) In other words, it might seem like a good idea now, but it’s only a matter of time before we see its devastating effects…and then we’ll wish we never went there in the first place.

I want to make abundantly clear that my view on gay marriage does not mean I hate people who are gay or hope they burn in hell. To the contrary. I am ashamed, embarrassed and angry when I see people shouting those things from the street corner. I definitely *get* that people who are gay are just like me in that they want to be able to live life according to what they believe. I have friends who are gay and I understand their fight. When I vote against gay marriage, I am not voting against people who are gay, I am voting against the negative consequences I believe it would produce (as explained in the Bible).

Anyway, this is becoming a very long reply. I feel very much the same about my kids as you do about yours–I can’t wait to see them blossom and to see what their passions become. Brian and I actively and deliberately expose them to the beliefs we hold as true, although we know FULL WELL they may choose not to adopt those beliefs as their own. We hope they do, however we know that that is not ours to control. After all, they get to enjoy free will just as we do.
dawn
November 7th, 2008 @ 6:59 pm

I have a question for you…

What is your point of view on War. Training and sending our soldiers out to murder (other soldiers and innocent woman and children)and to be murdered. When is murder okay and when is it not?
dawn
November 9th, 2008 @ 1:08 pm

I believe Jesus was a man that actually lived (as has been documented in various historical texts, of which the Bible is one) and that what He taught was true.

I too believe Jesus might have lived. I group him with other philosophers of times gone before. The bible, to me, has some good lessons in it. As do many other texts that have survied through the years (from other religions too). I do not believe he was the son of a god or did anything magical. I feel people back then and now wanted and needed something special.. people needed answers and guidence… so writers/philosophers gave them and over many hundreds of years these individuals with the help of churches and people in power, picked and choosed what they wanted this bible to include. (I could go on and on about the bible and my opinion of it’s validity). I do enjoy comparing religions and have found many common threads between their texts.

(we all need to be very, very careful to do things in a way that promotes not just good for us, but the most good overall. )

We agree …We agree!!! but I have to disagree with the conclusion. I think we need to look to ourselves for the answers…will we make mistakes? Ofcourse…humans have been playing this game since the cave days. But I feel we need to own it, learn from it and move on with our lessons learned.

(I disagree when you say “no faith needed” as it applies to you) I meant it in a “faith in god” theme. You are right…I do have faith in things that are tangible and proven. I have faith that the earth will keep spinning etc…It has been proven that when my body dies…I am dead. I believe it. Spirits, ghosts and souls do not exist to me. I do believe in energy. I have not really made my stance on what energy is and how it can be used…alive or what happens to it when a person dies. But I am not going to make up stories to satisfiy my need for answers. I will wait until it is proven to me. I have to admit though I have been sucked into the thought that mass people sending energy through meditation or prayer etc is something to investigate. It is a scientific question for me…purposful energy transfer.

(sometimes what looks good to me right here, right now, may not be the thing which will promote the most good.)

I believe this is true. We make choices and suffer or rejoice in the concequences. But hopefully we learn, value our lessons and make better decisions. This is why I beleive in gay marriage and euthanasia. We have learnded thus far and I really believe it wont be too much longer …and these will be comon place. I see it environmentally too. We are learning that the earth and it’s inhabitants are in danger. We are suffering the concequences and hopefully making better decisions (world wide)…it may take time…but all good things come in time.

It’s been fun posting back and forth…I do not want to be a pest…like I said before…I feel rejuvenated and happy…and have accepted the fact that I have been using spell check way to much. I am going back to try and fix my errors but I must have hit something because everytime I try and fix a word…other letters are disappearing…so it is as it is.

SHIMMER

Amy: Dawn, you’re no pest! Our internet was down one day and I haven’t gotten a chance to respond…
Amber
November 25th, 2008 @ 2:55 pm

AMEN, AMEN, AMEN!
Love the Facebook voting idea too!

Amber’s last blog post..Mandatory reader participation!

Just my political 2 cents

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