This post will most likely be unpopular with many, if not most of you. It might even serve as a catalyst to some not-so-nice email. I’m OK with that. And though it may appear I am a glutton for torture, I am merely writing in response to a comment left by Karen on my last post. Here’s what Karen said:
Hi Amy,
I have visited your church and have seen some of what your husband believes about women’s roles (or lack of). I find it interesting that for all of your candor on this blog, you do not respond to the few comments on women’s rolls [here and here]. I think if you want this blog to truly reflect who you are, you could tell us what you believe. Are you afraid of loosing readers, or are you trying to project something you are not by omission, or am I totally wrong?
First, a few things…
- Because blogging does not provide the reader the advantage of hearing voice intonation or reading nonverbals, it’s hard to know in what “spirit” things are said. I’m operating from the assumption that your comment is a genuine interest in what I think on the subject and not a criticism of me or my husband. I hope you will read my response in the same way (except for the little bits of sarcasm that are sure to pop up here and there).
- Also, you’re right that I didn’t respond to Kathryn’s comments. I assure you my silence is not due to a fear of losing readers (my sporadic and lame posts have already accomplished that) nor am I trying to project something I’m not (I’ve been as real as I know how so far).
- The reason for my silence is twofold. First, Kathryn and I have gone back and forth on this issue already, both in email and in the comments of other posts on this blog (like this one and this one). As you can see, we don’t get very far. Second, my dad was just here for a little over a week helping us complete some much-needed home repairs and I was busy doing things like freaking out as I watched him climb the world’s shakiest ladder to switch out our bee-infested, paint-peeling shutters and finding time between naps, feedings and screaming children to paint lots of doors…garage doors, the side door, the back doors and the front door. In other words, I’ve been focused on other things.
OK, on with it.
Well, Karen, you said that you’ve visited our church and “have seen some of what your husband believes about women’s roles (or lack of).” Not sure what this means or what you’re referring to. There have been a whole host of rumors about what he supposedly believes about women, most of which are completely untrue, such as, “he doesn’t believe women should serve communion” (which, ironically, was included in a letter he received just today from someone who is leaving our church partly for this reason. How unfortunate that (1) they listened to and believed false information and (2) they either forgot about, overlooked or didn’t notice the women that have served communion on countless occasions in the past). Anyway, where was I. Oh yeah, rumors. My personal favorite was “he doesn’t want [so-and-so] to mow the church lawn because she’s a woman.” Now, I’ve gotta stop right here and tell you how much of a bum rap I’ve got as the pastor’s wife. For obvious reasons, as the pastor’s wife, I’m generally not “in the loop” (read: privy to the gossip). By the time I heard that my husband doesn’t think a woman should mow the lawn, that little morsel of juicy gossip had already made its way to the ears (and mouths) of a handful of otherwise intelligent people. I found it so hilarious I would have liked to pass it on myself. And to think, all that time and energy I wasted mowing our lawn. Bummer.
OK, so I digress.
Anyway, the following are my (abbreviated) views on women in the church:
Basically, of the dozens (if not hundreds) of roles to be filled in the church, I believe there are exactly two (read: two, dos, t-w-o, 2) roles in the church that should be occupied by men only. Those are the role of senior pastor and the role of elder. My view is based mostly on 1 Timothy 2:11-15.
Now, before I get bombarded with all the typical and inevitable arguments as to why I’m wrong in my interpretation of Scripture or why I’m a disgrace to all women everywhere, let me say that I probably won’t engage any (well-meaning, I’m sure) attempts to get me to change my mind. After much thought, conversation, exploration, study, etc., this is where I’ve landed on the subject. I haven’t come to this conclusion lightly and I don’t anticipate being convinced otherwise. (Although I’m always open to dialogue, differing opinions, hearing what others think and more questions.)
I find it very interesting how much heated debate transpires over this subject. I can understand, of course, that women don’t like being told they can’t do something. After all, I’m a woman. But why is it so threatening? I suspect it’s because women very often view the idea through the lens of abuse, heartache and betrayal. Indeed, the women I’ve known who have been vehemently opposed to my viewpoint, are all women who have been deeply wounded by fathers, husbands, brothers or other men who have wrongly hurt them.
I am certainly not in favor of women being abused in any way, by anyone. I do not believe women are in any way inferior or less valuable than men. Women have just as much to contribute in the church, business, politics and the world.
I’ve only scratched the surface, but it is now after 11pm and I have officially turned into a pumpkin. (I knew there was a reason I suddenly found myself staring blankly at the computer screen with absolutely no idea what to write next.) Besides, I’m sure I’ve provided enough raw material for some lively discussion.
And anyway, I’ve gotta go mow the lawn.
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Hi there. I'm Amy. I write here about my life and my issues. I also design blogs and websites at 
This has to be one of those issues where people may have to just agree to disagree.
Can’t we all just get along?! LOL
Why do women get so stuck on the title thing. We are all called to fulfill the great comission and bring the gospel to the world. What does it matter whether I do it as a secretary in a little town or a preacher in a church?
I will admit I got all hung up on this a time or two in my life… but now to me it’s a fruitless arguement… distracting from the main purpose of telling people about Jesus.
jsut me thoughts. Good post Amy
*sigh* the fifty third post about the subject that whole BOOKS have been written about. Helpmeet: a helper suitable. When my son helps me make cookies, is he reading the recipe, measuring everything, getting the hot cookie sheet out of the oven? Nope. He’s my HELPER. There’s a logical difference here that can’t be denied. And there is nothing abusive or wrong or prejudiced in saying that a wife is a helper to her husband. That kind of language just inflames emotions (we women are so emotional, aren’t we!). How tiring that feminism has so infilterated the church that women buck up against any claim that appears to take their “rights” away. (And by the way, the time of the Judges was terrible and dark…and God never put a Queen on the throne of Israel.
Hi Amy,
Great post and well-balanced. I have been reading your blog for a while and I enjoy your thoughts and the way you handle yourself.
This whole issue really makes me heart-sick. There is abuse on both sides and I think you really nailed it when you made the comment about people having trouble with some of these things due to abuse. That means that we should be compassionate and understanding and I am glad to see you doing these things. There are some on our theological side of the fence who are not so understanding or compassionate and they are very dismissive.
I think it would also help if some (not you) would drop the stereotypical comments. I have seen church situations handled by men and it was not pretty. Talk about EMOTIONAL!!!
We, as sinful humans, are tempted by our emotions all the time. I am not the typical “emotional, hysterical” female so these sorts of whitewashing of a whole gender is not helpful to me as a woman who does see that the Bible teaches that elders/pastors are to be positions held by men.
I, the lump of clay, will not argue with the Potter on what He made me for. I will also not go looking for “reasons” why He does things because anecdotes really don’t help the argument. I know many godly, intelligent, theologically-minded females who do not allow their emotions to dictate their behavior. All we have to do is take a look at the happenings around the blogosphere to see that it is not only women who cause problems and get emotional.
Thanks again for your excellent post.
If Barak is a coward, as some complementarians claim, why is he mentioned as a person of faith in Hebrews 11? It took a lot of courage for him to do what he did, and to submit to the leadership of a woman in that time,(once he finally did),while knowing that he had lost the honor of capturing Sisera, the enemy general, to another woman. The land had 40 years of rest because of Deborah. The Israelites’ problems did not stem from having women leaders (Deborah, Huldah, etc.); they stemmed from their failure to destroy the Canaanites from the land, as they had been commanded by God to do (as hard as that is to understand) in Deuteronomy 7:1-4. The people were exhausted when they entered the Promised Land. They were tired of fighting, so they decided to settle down without eliminating their neighors (Thank God, we have the Holy Spirit to dwell in us today, and are not to do as they were commanded on this!). The people would get caught up in heathen practices and pagan worship because of their neighbors, the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and others. They would straighten up because of the judges and prophets, then they would get back into trouble again. That happened with all the judges, not just Deborah.
Why are you all talking about women’s roles? I thought the question was about women’s ROLLS?
Want my view? Pillsbury can’t be beat!
That was such a great answer, especially from a pumpkin!
Why can’t we stop discussing God’s image in female as if she was some sort of oddity? Can she do this? That??? How about this? How about if she sits? Stands? Stands way over there? If she wears a hat? Come on people of God! It’s the church age! Let’s get busy with the Lord’s work and stop letting Satan distract us from our COMmission!
Are we living in the Spirit? Can’t we rise above the flesh? We are called to! Come on! Let’s stop this foolishness.
Love In Jesus,
Karen
LOL…abuse me at church…abuse me on my blog…why do we subject ourselves to that?
The only thing I want to comment on (since everyone else did such a fine job) is the fact that I’m amazed the faithful Pastor (of Lord only knows how many years) never gets the benefit of the doubt, is the last one to know when someone is upset, and is not trusted to lead the flock as he is lead by the Word…
it’s usually because some woman has not gotten her way…Eve showing her ugly self again.
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